The marriage of `Umar to Umm Kulthoom, daughter of Imaam `Alee (عليه السلام), is seen as very controversial. Unfortunately, our Shee`ahs, try their very best by taking shaadh (odd/rare) historical accounts in order to prove that Umm Kulthoom did not marry `Umar. This is utterly wrong both historically and through our Shee`ah books.
In this article, my concern is not on the books of history written by Sunnees or any other sect, my concern, as it is always, is what is said about the marriage between Umm Kulthoom and `Umar in the Shee`ah books. Have the Imaams talked about this?
I will present SaHeeH (Authentic), Hasan (Good), Muwaththaq (Reliable) aHaadeeth from the books of the Shee`ah in which it clearly states that `Umar married Umm Kulthoom.
I want to merely discuss whether the marriage occurred or not, because this seems to be the main concern amongst the shee`ahs. I do not want to get into if this is a faDaa’il (merit) of `Umar or if it isn’t.
Here are two aHaadeeth that talk about where women should stay during her `iddah, when her husband dies. Notice whose example the Imaams give to answer the question.
مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى وَ غَيْرُهُ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنِ الْحُسَيْنِ بْنِ سَعِيدٍ عَنِ النَّضْرِ بْنِ سُوَيْدٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ خَالِدٍ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع عَنِ امْرَأَةٍ تُوُفِّيَ زَوْجُهَا أَيْنَ تَعْتَدُّ فِي بَيْتِ زَوْجِهَا تَعْتَدُّ أَوْ حَيْثُ شَاءَتْ قَالَ بَلَى حَيْثُ شَاءَتْ ثُمَّ قَالَ إِنَّ عَلِيّاً ع لَمَّا مَاتَ عُمَرُ أَتَى أُمَّ كُلْثُومٍ فَأَخَذَ بِيَدِهَا فَانْطَلَقَ بِهَا إِلَى بَيْتِهِ
From Sulaymaan bin Khaalid he said: “I asked Abaa `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) about a woman whose husband dies, where should she do her `iddah, in the house of her husband, or wherever she wants? He (عليه السلام) said: “Yes, wherever she wants”, then he (عليه السلام) said: “That `Alee (عليه السلام) brought Umm Kulthoom to his home when she became free, when `Umar died”
Source:
1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 6, pg. 115, hadeeth # 1
Grading:
1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq (Reliable)
à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 21, pg. 197
à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 21, pg. 197
2. Al-Majlisi I (Al-Majlisi’s Father) said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
à RawDah Al-Muttaqqoon, vol. 9, pg. 89
à RawDah Al-Muttaqqoon, vol. 9, pg. 89
3. Al-Meelaanee said this hadeeth has a SaHeeH Sanad
à Tazawwaj Umm Kulthoom with `Umar, pg. 28
à MaHaaDiraat fee Al-`Itiqaadaat, vol. 2, pg. 696
حُمَيْدُ بْنُ زِيَادٍ عَنِ ابْنِ سَمَاعَةَ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ سِنَانٍ وَ مُعَاوِيَةَ بْنِ عَمَّارٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ سَأَلْتُهُ عَنِ الْمَرْأَةِ الْمُتَوَفَّى عَنْهَا زَوْجُهَا أَ تَعْتَدُّ فِي بَيْتِهَا أَوْ حَيْثُ شَاءَتْ قَالَ بَلْ حَيْثُ شَاءَتْ إِنَّ عَلِيّاً ع لَمَّا تُوُفِّيَ عُمَرُ أَتَى أُمَّ كُلْثُومٍ فَانْطَلَقَ بِهَا إِلَى بَيْتِهِ
From `Abd Allaah bin Sinaan and Mu`aawiyah bin `Ammaar from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام): He said: I asked about the women whose husband dies, can she do her `iddah in her house or wherever she wants? He (عليه السلام) said: “It is wherever she wants, that `Alee (عليه السلام) brought Umm Kulthoom to his home when she became free, when `Umar died”
Source:
1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 6, pg. 115, hadeeth # 2
Grading:
1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 21, pg. 199
à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 21, pg. 199
2. Al-Majlisi I (Al-Majlisi’s Father) said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq Kal-SaHeeH (Reliable like a SaHeeH (hadeeth))
à RawDah Al-Muttaqqoon, vol. 9, pg. 89
à RawDah Al-Muttaqqoon, vol. 9, pg. 89
عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ وَ حَمَّادٍ عَنْ زُرَارَةَ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع فِي تَزْوِيجِ أُمِّ كُلْثُومٍ فَقَالَ إِنَّ ذَلِكَ فَرْجٌ غُصِبْنَاهُ
From Zuraarah from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) said about the marriage of Umm Kulthoom. So he (عليه السلام) said: “That this was the farj* that was forced (coerced) from us”
Source:
1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 5, pg. 346, hadeeth # 1
Grading:
1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan (Good)
à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 20, pg. 42
à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 20, pg. 42
2. Al-Meelaanee said this hadeeth has a SaHeeH Sanad
à Tazawwaj Umm Kulthoom with `Umar, pg. 30
à MaHaaDiraat fee Al-`Itiqaadaat, vol. 2, pg. 696
*Farj – Literally means “vagina”, but Al-Majlisi contends that the word “farj” does not mean “vagina” as this is a disrespectful way of putting it and our Imaam’s were the most eloquent of speakers. Instead Al-Majlisi says “farj” means “honor”. (See: Al-Majlisi, BiHaar Al-Anwaar, vol. 42, 106 – 109)
After doing a little more research on the word “farj”, here is where Al-Majlisi has gotten the definition of “honor” for the word “farj”. According to the Qur’aan, when Allaah (سبحانه و تعالى) talks about Maryam, peace be upon her, it talks about her “guarding her chastity”. It is unanimous amongst all the translators, that the when this word “farj” is used in this context it means “chastity” is “farj”. This “guarding her chastity” has been used two different times in the Qur’aan in regards to Maryam, peace be upon her.
[Surah Al-TaHreem (66) : Verse 12]
«وَ مَرْيمََ ابْنَتَ عِمْرَانَ الَّتىِ أَحْصَنَتْ فَرْجَهَا فَنَفَخْنَا فِيهِ مِن رُّوحِنَا»
Sahih International: And [the example of] Mary, the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity, so We blew into [her garment] through Our angel..
Pickthall: And Mary, daughter of 'Imran, whose body was chaste, therefor We breathed therein something of Our Spirit…
Yusuf Ali: And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit…
Shakir: And Marium, the daughter of Imran, who guarded her chastity, so We breathed into her of Our inspiration…
Mohsin Khan: And Maryam (Mary), the daughter of 'Imran who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (the sleeve of her shirt or her garment) through Our Ruh [i.e. Jibrael (Gabriel)]…
[Surah Al-Anbiyaa’ (21) : Verse 91]
«وَ الَّتىِ أَحْصَنَتْ فَرْجَهَا فَنَفَخْنَا فِيهَا مِن رُّوحِنَا وَ جَعَلْنَاهَا وَ ابْنَهَا ءَايَةً لِّلْعَلَمِينَ»
Sahih International: And [mention] the one who guarded her chastity, so We blew into her [garment] through Our angel [Gabriel], and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds.
Pickthall: And she who was chaste, therefor We breathed into her (something) of Our Spirit and made her and her son a token for (all) peoples.
Yusuf Ali: And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.
Shakir: And she who guarded her chastity, so We breathed into her of Our inspiration and made her and her son a sign for the nations.
Muhammad Sarwar: Into the woman who maintained her chastity We breathed Our Spirit and made her and her son a miracle for all people.
Mohsin Khan: And (remember) she who guarded her chastity [Virgin Maryam (Mary)], We breathed into (the sleeves of) her (shirt or garment) [through Our Ruh Jibrael (Gabriel)], and We made her and her son ['Iesa (Jesus)] a sign for Al-'Alamin (the mankind and jinns).
So by this, it can be seen that the word “farj” 1400 years ago was used for more than one meaning, and not just “vagina”. Al-Majlisi was correct in his interpretation of the word “farj” to mean “honor”.
Here is an interesting Hadeeth. This Hadeeth is weak, due to Ja`far bin Muhammad Al-Qummee being majhool (unkown) according to Al-Majlisi (Milaadh Al-Akhyaar, vol. 15, pg. 382), and Al-Khoei (Mu`jam Rijaal Al-Hadeeth, vol. 4, pg. 128, person # 2305), but it is interesting to take out nonetheless since we already have SaHeeH hadeeth proving the marriage took place.
مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ يَحْيَى عَنْ جَعْفَرِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ الْقُمِّيِّ عَنِ الْقَدَّاحِ عَنْ جَعْفَرٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ ع قَالَ مَاتَتْ أُمُّ كُلْثُومٍ بِنْتُ عَلِيٍّ ع وَ ابْنُهَا زَيْدُ بْنُ عُمَرَ بْنِ الْخَطَّابِ فِي سَاعَةٍ وَاحِدَةٍ لَا يُدْرَى أَيُّهُمَا هَلَكَ قَبْلُ فَلَمْ يُوَرِّثْ أَحَدَهُمَا مِنَ الْآخَرِ وَ صَلَّى عَلَيْهِمَا جَمِيعاً
From Al-QadaaH from Ja`far (Al-Saadiq) (عليه السلام) from his father (عليه السلام) He said: “Umm Kulthoom, daughter of `Alee (عليه السلام), and her son Zayd bin `Umar bin Al-KhaTTaab died at the same time. They did not know who passed away before, so they did not inherit from one another, and they prayed (the funeral prayer) upon them together”
Source:
1. Al-Toosi, Tahdheeb Al-aHkaam, vol. 9, ch. 36, pg. 362, hadeeth # 15
Grading:
1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Majhool (Unknown)
à Milaadh Al-Akhyaar, vol. 15, pg. 382
à Milaadh Al-Akhyaar, vol. 15, pg. 382
Look at the name of the son of Umm Kulthoom, the Imaam has said, “her (Umm Kulthoom) son, Zayd son of `Umar bin Al-KhaTTaab”. This is another proof to show that the marriage had indeed taken place, as it is only one majhool narrator.
Here is a Hasan hadeeth in which it is giving the background on how the marriage came into fruition. This sheds some light into the narration about “forced/coerced”.
مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ لَمَّا خَطَبَ إِلَيْهِ قَالَ لَهُ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ إِنَّهَا صَبِيَّةٌ قَالَ فَلَقِيَ الْعَبَّاسَ فَقَالَ لَهُ مَا لِي أَ بِي بَأْسٌ قَالَ وَ مَا ذَاكَ قَالَ خَطَبْتُ إِلَى ابْنِ أَخِيكَ فَرَدَّنِي أَمَا وَ اللَّهِ لَأُعَوِّرَنَّ زَمْزَمَ وَ لَا أَدَعُ لَكُمْ مَكْرُمَةً إِلَّا هَدَمْتُهَا وَ لَأُقِيمَنَّ عَلَيْهِ شَاهِدَيْنِ بِأَنَّهُ سَرَقَ وَ لَأَقْطَعَنَّ يَمِينَهُ فَأَتَاهُ الْعَبَّاسُ فَأَخْبَرَهُ وَ سَأَلَهُ أَنْ يَجْعَلَ الْأَمْرَ إِلَيْهِ فَجَعَلَهُ إِلَيْهِ
Hishaam bin Saalim from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) he said: “When he (`Umar) address (proposed) to him (`Alee). Ameer Al-Mu’mineen (عليه السلام) said to him “She is a child”. He said: So he (`Umar) met Al-`Abbaas and he said to him: “What is wrong with me? Is there a problem with me?” He (Abbaas) said: “And what is the matter?” He (Umar) said: “I addressed (proposed) before your brother's son (nephew), and he denied me. I swear by Allaah, I will fill the zamzam, leave no honor for you without being destroyed. I will bring two witnesses upon him and (prove) he (is guilty) of theft, and I will cut his right (hand)!” Then Al-`Abbaas went to him (Imaam `Alee) and gave him the news (of what happened). And he (Abbaas) asked him (`Alee) to put the matter to him (Abbaas). And he (`Alee) agreed.”
Source:
1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 5, pg. 346, hadeeth # 2
Grading:
1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan (Good)
à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 20, pg. 42
à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 20, pg. 42
2. Al-Meelaanee said this hadeeth has a SaHeeH Sanad
à Tazawwaj Umm Kulthoom with `Umar, pg. 28
à MaHaaDiraat fee Al-`Itiqaadaat, vol. 2, pg. 696
Based off other SaHeeH narrations and history, this is in reference to `Umar’s marriage or what led up to `Umar’s marriage with Umm Kulthoom. Al-Kulayni has put this under the chapter of بَابُ تَزْوِيجِ أُمِّ كُلْثُومٍ “Marriage of Umm Kulthoom”. Historically, Umm Kulthoom has been said to marry `Umar at a very young age, while he was much older.
Our classical scholars have talked about this marriage taking place as well.
و روى أن عمر تزوج أم كلثوم بنت على عليه السلام
“And it is narrated that `Umar married Umm Kulthoom, daughter of `Alee (عليه السلام)”
Source:
“And it is narrated that `Umar married Umm Kulthoom, daughter of `Alee (عليه السلام)”
Source:
1. Al-Toosi, Al-MabsooT, vol. 4, pg. 272
Al-Shareef Al-MurtaDa (d. 436 AH) has also commented on the marriage taking place in his book, Risaa’il Al-Shareef Al-MurtaDa. And here is what he said regarding the narration of “faraj being usurped from us”. He talks about the how it is “attested” in the SaHeeH narration from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام).
ويشهد بصحته ما روي عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام
Source:
1. Al-Shareef Al-MurtaDa, Risaa’il Al-Shareef Al-MurtaDa, pg. 148 - 150
Here are some contemporary scholars who have talked about this marriage taking place.
From Al-Khoei’s Website:
Question: Is it SaHeeH (authentic) that the second caliph (`Umar) married the daughter of Imaam `Alee (عليه السلام)?
Answer: Such has been mentioned in history and narrations.
Here is what the Late FaDlullaah has said:
Question: Is it SaHeeH (authentic) that Sayyidah Umm Kulthoom, peace be upon her, married `Umar bin Al-KhaTTaab or are these allegations?
Answer: That is what is mentioned in SaHeeH narrations.
Answer: That is what is mentioned in SaHeeH narrations.
Here is what the `Aalim Network of Al-Islam.org says:
As to the issue of marriage I believe it is also wrong. But if anyone wants to use this kind of events against more basic idea he must know that first of all it was Omar himself who married Ali and Fatemeh' (AS) daughter, Ume Kulsum. Secondly When Omar asked Imam's (AS) permission to marry her, Imam (AS) refused and said she is too young for marrying him. Source: http://www.al-islam.org/Organizations/Aalimnetwork/msg00166.html
As you can see, Umm Kulthoom, daughter of Imaam `Alee (عليه السلام), did indeed marry `Umar, and this isn’t some made up thing by the Sunnees to put `Umar at a higher status.
And Allaah knows best.
What about comments of scholars which don't accept this merriage, brother? Maybe, these are will be useful.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.valiasr-aj.com/lib/omekolsom/
http://www.aqaed.com/book/292/
http://www.aqaed.com/book/217/
http://www.aqaed.com/book/210/
http://www.aqaed.com/book/123/
^Please provide a SaHeeH hadeeth that this didn't happen, and then we will believe you.
ReplyDeleteSalam Brother's,
DeleteToo Long Q&A. Was walking through the whole discussion. Just make one point and moving. Quran does not have zaeef/weak/majhul source and everyone belives it, so I am referring Quran Verse.
[Sura Nisa:22&23]
[Sura Nisa:22] And marry not the woman whom your fathers married, except what has already passed; this surely is indecent and hateful, and it is an evil way
[Sura Nida:23]
Forbidden to you are your mothers and your daughters and your sisters and
your paternal aunts and your maternal aunts and brothers' daughters and
sisters' daughters and your mothers that have suckled you and your fostersisters and mothers of your wives and your step-daughters who are in your guardianship, (born) of your wives to whom you have gone in, but if you have not gone in to them, there is no blame on you (in marrying them), and the wives of your sons who are of your own loins and that you should have two sisters together, except what has already passed; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful"
As per Islam "If one marries her daughter to a person then that person cannot marry his Son-in Law daughter or Grand Daughter."
Ex: Say A person "X" marries his daughter to "Y", so "X: cannot marry "Y" daughters, since its her grand child.
Now Omer was father of Hafsa, so Prohet Mohammed pbuh was Son in Law of Omer l.a and Umm Kulsoom was grand daughter of Prophet Mohammed pbuh. How come in Islamic World it is possible.
Thanks to my Dad for clearing it.
Syed Yousha Hyder.
syedyousha79@gmail.com
Bro I am a shia as well but the connection of omar being shahzadi umme kalsumes step maternal great grandfather is utterly wrong as bibi was not his "sulbi" great grand father. By the same analogy hazrat abdullah bin jaffar becomes bibi zainabs step brother ad his mother asma bint e umais( widow of jaffar e tayyar AS and mother in law of bibi zainab) later married mola ali AS as well thus becoming bibi zainabs step mother
DeleteNader Zaveri you are a honest shia but there are some other shias and websites like Answering-Ansar who deny this marriage. I hope they check at your blog.
ReplyDeleteMay Allah reward you for this.
Can you please tell the year of marriage of Bibi Umme Kulsum.
DeleteSalamu Alaikom Brother,
ReplyDeleteExcellent post.
Hopefully posts like this will make the Sheeah umma to become less of reactionaries and more of pro-active followers of ahlul bayt's (pbut)teachings.
Ahsant brother.
May Allah increase your ranks amongst the Momineen.
answering-ansar team answered these all hadiths years ago. http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/umme_kulthum/en/index.php 5 shia traditions were discussed there.
ReplyDeleteAnd i ask, what about these books?
http://www.valiasr-aj.com/lib/omekolsom/
http://www.aqaed.com/book/292/
http://www.aqaed.com/book/217/
http://www.aqaed.com/book/210/
http://www.aqaed.com/book/123/
Please check them. The scholars have already discussed these hadiths. ALL HADITHS ARE ALREADY DISCUSSED!
^We don't follow shaadh (odd) opinions. We follow authentic ahaadeeth and your friend above already took out the same source as you just took out. And I will say it again... Provide a SaHeeH hadeeth that this marriage didn't happen and I will believe in what you are saying, but even so, the 'ulamaa have ijma' that this has happened.
ReplyDeleteSalaamun `Alaykum,
ReplyDeleteThey have weakened our greatest of greatest narrators! When did Rijaal Al-Kashee become the most authentic? It is actually the LEAST authentic, each Hadeeth in Rijaal Al-Kashee has to undergo isnaad checking, as it is a book of hadeeth ABOUT rijaal.
They have weakened all these narrators?!
Hishaam bin Saalim
Humayd bin Ziyaad
Al-Hasan bin Muhammad bin Samaa`ah
Sulaymaan bin Khaalid
Wow, anyone who knows ANYTHING about rijaal knows that all of these narrators do NOT even have ikhtilaaf, no one has doubted their authenticity!
Nobody denies this marriage but a donkey. I am a shia and i believe these sahih hadiths over some crazy lunatics. Omar did marry her but against the will of imam ali(as)/
ReplyDeletecom'on guys, all these ahadith are actually discuessed, these ahadeths doesnt provide actually the marriage of umm kulthum bint ali to omar. also there are some other narrations by our imams where the companion did asked them if that claim is true, the imam denied it. why do you not make a research about that?
ReplyDelete^Post it up then. We will discuss that now. You think we don't know these sources?
ReplyDeletethere are several books or textes about that issue, and also explained in englisch language, like in answering ansar. look to that logic, muhammad (s) dont give fatima(a) to omar for marriage, because of her age.
ReplyDeletebut ali(a) give fatima(a)'s daughter to omar.
so, fatima(a) is to young for omar, but the daughter of the to young fatima(a) is not to young for omar?
السلام عليكم
ReplyDeleteBrother did you read the whole article? Did you look at all the hadeeth.did you see how the imam said the marriage was غسب which means force or coerced. And the other hadeeth shows that 'Umar threatened to cut the hand of imam 'ali (as) if he doesn't give umm kulthoom to him.
Also about answering-Ansar.org do not know they are talking when I comes to shee'ah book and shee'ah ilm al-rijaal
And please answering-Ansar.org do not know what they are talking about when it comes to Shia ilm al-rijaal
coerced!!! what do you mean sir, Umar threatened to cut Ali's hand and Imam Ali got scared!!! was Imam Ali a coward!!! By Allah Imam Ali was the bravest of all... he was the one who could lift gate of khaiber with one hand while 40 men could not lift that... Ayatullah Fadhullah rejected the story of broken rib of fatima a.s. by umar only by reason that Imam Ali was not to be scared or threatened and he was not among those who could not protect his own women....???
DeleteSalaam, practically, Imam can marry his daughter to a Kafir, right? Tis whole thing doesn't make sense! We read in Man Laa Yahdharal Faqih, Book of Nikah, some Hadith No. 4000+: Prophet looked at the sons and daughters of Ali and Jaffer, and said: Our sons for our daughters, and our daughters are for our sons.
DeleteIn this hadith, where the hell is and how the hell does Umer get involved in that sons and family category? Please answer...
That word does mean 'vagina' and by using this word the shia insult Umm-e-Kulsum bint Ali (ra).
ReplyDeleteMajlisi was not an expert in Arabic Language to create another meaning for it.
No one forced Ali (ra) and no one can, the problem is that the shia copied hadiths of Sunnnis and changed it abit only to attack Umar (ra).
Just like in English or any other language, "vagina" can only mean "honour" in a very specific context. Yes "to protect your vagina" means "to protect your chastity", hence "to protect your honour". But the word "vagina", out of the blue, can only mean "vagina". If you call a woman a vagina, it is direspectful in any language, whether Arabic, English or another one.
Deletethe same word "Farj" "furooj" was mentioned by allah in the quran so was he disrespectful to muslim men and women?
ReplyDeleteAssalaamu `Alaykum
ReplyDeleteBrother Abu Bakr,
I have added some stuff under the "farj" part of Al-Majlisi proving that the Al-Majlisi was correct in his interpretation of the word "farj", please check it out. It is in regards to the two ayah of the Qur'aan, that all translators are unanimous on agreeing that, that word can mean "chastity" as well.
Wa `Alaykum Assalaam.
@nader zaveri
ReplyDeleteabout the AA article, the one who give them the shii rijal informations, or wrote that, is more educated in shii fiqh/rijal than you. i know him...
we have 2 different hadith which contradict , one says the marriage occurd the other one says one who claim that is lying.
so according to our law of hadith you should know what we have to do.
there are many hadith in our books who are mixed with false hadith, so they are forged. there are also many hadith with sahih chain which are forged. because their manuscripts are forged by the ghulats, for exc. the khattabiya. because of this we should look at the quran, and other sahih hadith, and look what the opponent said und believe the otherwis what the sunnis believe
you should read articles regarding this topic from our scholars, before you write articles in the internet like this.
Brother, he doesn't know `ilm al-rijaal. I can assure you that, because even AL-Khooei, Mamaqani, SubHaanee, who knows more than that guy and myself says those people are thiqah and not da`eef.
ReplyDeleteThat hadeeth they sourced mir'aat, can you find me the original source. It is no where to be seen in our major books of hadeeth, it is a shaadh book.
After looking at the Hadeeth presented by AA, it comes from a shaadh book called Al-Kharaa'ij, vol. 2, pg. 825. This book is not a primary source for any information, and when it is compared to books with such high status as Al-kaafee it fails in comparison. Also the sanad of that hadeeth is no where near to become saheeh.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the earliest sources that I see who denies the marriage of Umm Kulthoom to `Umar is from a ghuluww guy who is known to have bid`ah in his books. his name is Abol Qaasim Al-Koofee (`Alee bin aHmad). He is said to be ghuluww by all rijaal scholars Najaashee, GhaDaa'iree, Toosee, Khoei, and it is said his books contain bid`ah.
this is the hadeeth from kharaij that denies the marriage is this:
ReplyDeleteفصل 39 - عن أبي بصير ( 3 ) جدعان بن نصر ، حدثنا أبو عبد الله محمد بن مسعدة ( 4 ) : حدثنا محمد بن حمويه بن إسماعيل الاربنوئي ، عن أبي عبد الله الزبيني ( 5 ) ، عن عمر بن اذينة [ قال : ] قيل لابي عبد الله عليه السلام : إن الناس يحتجون علينا ويقولون : إن أمير المؤمنين زوج فلانا ( 6 ) ابنته ام كلثوم وكان متكئا فجلس وقال : ( وتقبلون أن عليا أنكح فلانا بنته ؟ ) ( 1 ) إن قوما يزعمون ذلك لا ( 2 ) يهتدون إلى سواء السبيل ، ولا الرشاد .
فصفق بيده وقال : سبحان الله أما كان أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام يقدر أن يحول بينه وبينها فينقذها ؟ كذبوا لم يكن ما قالوا .
إن فلانا خطب إلى علي عليه السلام بنته ام كلثوم فأبى علي عليه السلام فقال للعباس : والله لئن لم يزوجني ( 3 ) لانتزعن منك السقاية وزمزم .
فأتى العباس عليا عليه السلام فكلمه ، فأبى عليه ، فألح العباس ( 4 ) .
فلما رأى أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام مشقة كلام الرجل على العباس ، وأنه سيفعل بالسقاية ما قال ، أرسل أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام إلى جنية من أهل نجران يهودية ، يقال لها " سحيقة بنت جريرية " ( 5 ) فأمرها ، فتمثلت في مثال ام كلثوم ، وحجبت الابصار عن ام كلثوم ، وبعث بها إلى الرجل .
فلم تزل عنده حتى أنه استراب ( 6 ) بها يوما ، فقال : ما في الارض أهل بيت أسحر من بني هاشم .
ثم أراد أن يظهر ذلك للناس ، فقتل ( 7 ) وحوت ( 8 ) الميراثوانصرفت إلى نجران ، وأظهر أمير المؤمنين ام كلثوم .
Dark sanad
Yes, the isnaad is no where near as authentic as the isnaad that says the marriage took place.
ReplyDeleteso to recapitulate : The marriage took place without a doubt but was against the will of imam ali(as) who was under threat to be accused falsely and to have his hand cut so he let the matter for his uncle al-abbas who married omm-kolthoom to omar and as soon as omar died ali(as) took omm-kolthoom(ra) back to his house and didn't even let her in her husband's house to mourn like normal wife and this shows imam ali's resentment of this marriage.
ReplyDelete@nader
ReplyDeletedid you read my postig? i said, even if one hadith has a sahih chain, it could be forged.
a sahih chain doesnt prove everytime that the content is also sahih.
i never said that the one from aa, or the article (did you read that?) deny that the chain is sahih.
that alkhui or other said that the chain is sahih doesnt prove anything.if you would ask me, i would also say the same thing
it depends on the question. if you would ask me what my believe is in this regard. i would tell you that i dont believe.
but if you would ask me, exist there some narraton? answer: yes they afe although a sahih chain.
i think you do it to easy in these topics.it doesnt work the way of your thinking. also, just checking the sanad, if all are thiqah, than i can accept the whole hadith.
The issue is, there isn't just ONE saheeh hadeeth that allude to this marriage taken place. I have provided 4 SaHeeH hadeeth, as well as one 1 weak hadeeth that alludes to the marriage. Do you realize our fiqh rulings only go through sometimes one chain? And we have 4 saheeh hadeeth on this matter.
ReplyDeleteAnd then there is a shaadh hadeeth in a shaadh book that the chain is no where near as being saheeh. Why are shee`ahs so keen on finding shaadh sources to prove their point?!
@Nader: Basically you are trying to prove that a grand-daughter of the prophet (saww) married an enemy of Islam and a criminal thug who is burning in hell. Do you even stop to think a little?? Next thing you will be saying that Yazid (la) was a righteous human.
ReplyDeleteAnd how about Hadith that say members of Bani Hashim can only marry others of Bani Hashim (ie. equivalence)??
Brother, Nadir is only stating a historical fact. He is not making conclusions, or making a point. However this fact and many other facts may indeed prove that perhaps Hazrat Ali did not view Hazarat Umar in the same light as you do.
DeleteHuh? Brother actually there are hadeeth that say the opposite, there is a whole section dedicated in Wasaa'il saying the permissibility for haashimee women to non haashimee men. And your little qiyaas, it says equivalent, it does not say "bani haashim" this is your speculation and interpretation. That hadeeth is da`eef anyways. All scholar allow the marriage of a hashime women with a non haashimi man.
ReplyDeleteAnd brother, I suggest you to read the full article, at the end there is a hadeeth showing that `umar forced imaam ali's hand, in order for him to get married with umm kulthoom.
Umar (la) can't "force" anything from Ali (as) - you have much knowledge with hadith and history, but you have NO wisdom if you would believe something like this. An enemy of Allah marrying His greatest Prophets daughter??
ReplyDeleteShaykh Saduq, Man la yahduruhul Faqih, vol 3, pg 249:
"Rasulullah (s) looked at the family of Ja'far Tayyar and Muhammad bin Ja'far Tayyar, and then looked at Hasan, Husayn, Zaynab and Kulthum and said 'Our daughters are for our sons and our sons are for our daughters'."
and look here: http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/umme_kulthum/en/chap8.php
Can we see anywhere in the SAHEEH Narrations that SHE (UMME KULTHUM) was أُمُّ كُلْثُومٍ بِنْتُ عَلِيٍّ ع Umme Kulthum, Daughter of Ali [as]? NO!!
ReplyDeleteSo what's your Point here? There's much possibility those Hadiths are talking About Umme Kulthum bint Abi bakr!
One more question. Why Abdullah Bin Umer time and again asked Yazeed (laeen) to release Ameer Mukhtar with whose sister Abdullah Bin Umer was married and Yazeed (Laeen) released him. It was son because Abdullah Bin Umer was among those persons who had observed the Baiyat of Yazeed (Laeen). But how many times the same Abdullah Bin Umer asked Yazeed (laeen) to release Umme Kulthoom bint e Ali (a.s) after the tragedy of Karbala? Not a single time. So it means he had no relation with Umme Kulthoom binte Ali a.s.
ReplyDeleteDefine and elaborate what you mean by scholarly?
ReplyDeleteAt least I hope that in this attempt of yours you do nothing stupid and blur the lines between blasphemy and scholarly. Besides the tradition regarding how Umar(la) was Introduced to her is so vulgar that as a self respecting Shia I could not add it to my beliefs, regardless of how you may want me to do so. Besides even if it is true then what are we supposed to do about it. May I know on what date it happened and what was the Dowry consisting of and who witnessed the Nikah actually take place?
Oh yes and actually the point raised from our side regarding if Abdullah Bin Umar ever pressed for the release of his stepmother is actually quite though provoking from our side.
Also If Umar Married Umm-e-Kulsoom then what points does it make a fool like your self score over us. I mean the prophet him self married Ayesha but it had more negative consequences and in the end the Dog's of Hawaaib barked at her and she was on the verge of disgrace in front of all the Muslims. Also didn't she not terribly disrupt the funeral of Imam Hassan in such a way as that she will never be forgiven till the end of time. Besides no progeny continued from Ayesha and she is not important or even superior to either Khadija or Fatima or other righteous wives like Umm-e Salamah. So best for you to trash her Idol while you still have time to salvage what ever is left of your reputation.
Also Nader you are a Gujrati I guess and Most Probably a Memon and they are a 3rd class bunch of people, and definitely you must be involved in Dr Israar's or Zakir Naiks Organisation or some thing like that. But you know what it is best for you to avoid meddling in our affairs or attacking our beleifs or holy persons and you should by now realise that you are a hopeless Kaffir. Also not to sound racist but the truth is when Gujratis get involved in religion they create disaster by mixing it with business and their mentality.
Plkease accept the fact that your false Idols of Umar, Usman, Ayesha, Abu Bakr Muawiyaa etc are just shams and are not that innocent.
Also why don't you make sufficient reference to Sahaba we hold in High regard like Salman-e- Farsi or Abuzar or Ammar-e-Yasir etc. I barely find any Sunnis talking about them at all. Why is this so. Here we openly discuss all what every one did both the good and the bad. Regardless of who it is about which means we clearly state that Abu Bakr Denied Writing Material on the Prophets Death Bed and what he did to the daughter of holy prophet afterwards, or the misbehavior of Ayesha and why she went to war with the commander of the faith full and the consequences it begot as countless Muslims and companions were killed as a result of her rash misguided actions.
Also may I know what benefit you got from whom you are working for if any ? And is there a living in it?
Also why don't people like you ever allow us to express our views at all?
@supercool samrat
ReplyDeleteenough with your emotions :p
please talk in a DECENT , Scholarly way :-)
And he (Abbaas) asked him (`Alee) to put the matter to him (Abbaas). And he (`Alee) agreed.”
ReplyDeleteCan’t it be
And he (Abbaas) asked him (`Alee) to put the matter to him (Abbaas). And he (`Alee) put(the matter) to him(Abbas)
Means Imam ali(as) put the matter in hand of Abbas.
Yes, brother. That is what I meant when I said "agreed" Since `Abbaas asked Imaam `Alee if he could handle the situation and Imaam `Alee agreed.
ReplyDeleteNader bro
ReplyDeletein one of tradition it is writen that
"Ameer Al-Mu’mineen (عليه السلام) said to him “She is a child”."
but we see that (bint e ali as )was around 13 years and at that time and people used to marry their daughters at this age .... since they become BALIGH at this age .... and at that age they can not be labelled as CHILD...
so why IMAM ALI(A.S) was saying that she is a child ....
could it be UMM E KULSOOM dauther of ASMA BINT E UMAIS (Who married to IMAM ALI as )??
and definetly she was a child at that time when UMAR became married at 17 hijri..
so now you guys (though at least accepting the marriage) have resorted to ANOTHER pathetic insult towards Ali (ra) by claiming that the LION OF ALLAH, the one who lifted the gate of khaybar and what not was afraid of OMAR????
ReplyDeleteYOU saying that Omar FORCED the marriage, how can Omar force Ali to give his 3irdh i.e. DAUGTHER to the "tyrant" who Omar is (according to Shia)? He threatend to "cut his hand" and to accuse him?
Now you gonna say Ali wanted to prevent fitna?
Wallahi shiism makes no sense.
Well guys if you are calling Black Crow White then no one can help you out.The truth is Umer did marry Ali's daughter Umme Kulsom binte Ali.
ReplyDeleteAA's team member are too harsh,too racist,proven liars,now they are being more exposed.How long they will deny the truth?End of the day Umer&Ali are blessed people,praised by Allah in Holy Quran and Messenger of Allah(pbuh) in authentic Hadeeths.Shias like AA&Co reject their own authentic Hadeeth as stated above by Nader Brother,they feeling heat and threat to Shiaism.
Nader brother I appreciate yours honesty.
al-Salamu Aleykum,
ReplyDeleteNader Zaveri why do you even bother? are you trying to be a reformist? are you trying to accomplish what your scholars failed to do for over 1400 years? why go into the science of Hadith now when you KNOW VERY WELL that your primary sources or your Usool for Rijal are at best USELESS? Why go into it now when you know for a fact that your scholars have PURPOSELY ignored science of Hadith for over 1000 years because they knew that it would destroy the Madhab?
May Allah Guide you to the Authentic Sunnah of the Prophet PBUH.
Wa `Alaykum Assalaam,
ReplyDeleteBecause I have seen full well what `ilm al-rijaal can do. Going strictly by authentic hadeeth you have a complete fiqh and `aqeedah, minus the ghuluww.
And may Allaah (SWT) guide ALL OF US to the Sunnah of the Prophet (SAWAS)
wow, wow, so your "stricly following Hadith", compiled by MUSHRIK, KAFIRS ilke Kulaini (who has put the most shirki CHAPTERS possible i.e. I am not talking about his gradings), Kuleinis and Majlisis who believed in Al Tahreef, and finally you end up authenticating a clear-cut nasibi-like hadith, that in fact is an insult towards Ali (ra) i.e. Omar (ra) taking his daughter by FORCE.
ReplyDeleteProbably there is some "logical, philospohical, qiyasi" explanation for it, I am sure, Ya Majoos Al Ummah...
Yes, applying your 3ilm al rijaal has givin you a NEW deen, no doubt LESSER in ghuluw than original Rafidah, since they passed even HIndus in terms of ghuluw, but believe me, your fiqh and aqeedah is not the Aqeedah of Al Islam in its enterely and those parts which are can EXACTLY be found in OUR books, be it the fiqh or Aqeedah.
Nader Zaveri since you are interested in 'Uloum al-Hadith and especially the disparagement and appraisal of the Rijal, You might want to read this university thesis which you can download from here:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.google.com.lb/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CB4QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ahlalhdeeth.com%2Fvb%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D73406%26d%3D1263036281&ei=jzbMTaa-GYSHhQfu8PGoAg&usg=AFQjCNE7e5POQJfOSRTtF0UrqWQjBRuEAQ
OR HERE:
http://www.4shared.com/document/NhMU1P0y/______________.html
I do this as a part of Da'wah and because I think the twelver Shia sect is wrong and the proper authentic Islam based on the Quran & the Sunnah of the Prophet SAWS is the path to be followed.
Salam. I'd rather have my hand cut than giving my daughter to the worse person on earth.
ReplyDeleteI am wondering, can such a person be relied upon to lead the affairs of ummah who loves life more than the death of dignity? Just wondering?
ReplyDeleteAlso am trying to find synonymity amongst the Ali R.A who won many battles for Muslims and this coward man who accepts his daughter to be given to a transgressor, killer of his wife, usurper of his right to the throne and what not?
My brothers, for Allah's sake don't disrespect your imam to this degree. please don't....
Tom, Dick and Harry married. Who are Tom, Dick and Harry, no one know, as these are common names.
ReplyDeleteName like Omar is name like Tom, Dick and Harry. A very common name. Even Omar son of Carpenter is like Tom son of Carpenter.
All the hadiths says, Omar.
In some of them the name of Omar is intentionally inserted into bracket.
Only one hadith says, Omar son of Carpenter, which is a Majhool (Unknown) hadith.
Thus, what is posted above is ridiculous. Based on one Majhool (Unknown)which says, Omar son of Carpenter it is decided it the the real Omar.
And, there were lots of Omars son of Carpenters, whose parents' trade was Carpenter.
Other hadiths only say, Omar. It could be Omar son of Goldsmith, Omar son of Carpenter, Omar son of Milkman, Omar son of ......
Thousands of possibilities.
As Salamu Alekum,
ReplyDeleteIs it allowed in islam to marry your daughter to a tyrant a hypocrite or an enemy of Islam ?
What is Important in religion ? Is an authentic chain or narrators or the religion itself ?
If Ali(as) really married his daughter to Umar either happily or forcefully he acted against Quran and sunna Mazallah. How can he marry his daughter to a well known drunkard and a base born person whose lineage was unknown ??
Is this allowed in rulings, I am asking you ? Ask any jusrist this simple question, can i marry my daughter to a base born drunkard ? Tell me the answer ?
.
.
So one can not say that if there is some narration with good chain or narrators, is sahih. It may be a propoganda of some ghulat to prove Umar as Zalim which he actually was and there was no need to bring such things into existance.
W. salam
Wa `Alaykum Assalaam,
ReplyDeleteBrother, I think you are sadly mistaken. This interpretation of it being another Umm Kulthoom is even more absurd, because it'll show that Imaam `Alee (AS) didn't care about the other Umm Kulthoom who was taken under his (AS) wing. This would even make Imaam `Alee (AS) worse.
Wa `Alaykum Assalaam,
That means brother Nader you yourself agree that believing in this marriage makes Imam Ali(as) worse mazallah and believing it being another Umm e Kuthoom is even more absurd.
ReplyDeleteThe whole thing and narration does only one thing that you mentioned in you last comment.
Assalaamu `Alaykum,
ReplyDeleteNo, All this marriage shows is that Imaam `Alee (AS) was forced into accepting this marriage. That is it. And no one in History until the past 50 years started doubting which Umm Kulthoom this is. This is theory of it being another Umm Kulthoom is purely reactionary. After it was impossible for them to prove that `Umar married Umm Kulthoom, they turned to questioning if the Umm Kulthoom was even bin `Ali. This is very common for reactionaries to do this.
the umm kulthoom in hadiths is the daughter of Asma ..who was the wife of abu bakr ..after he died.. Imam Ali(as) married with her..and Asma two childs name Mohammad bin abi bakr and umm kulthoom was not orginally relate to Imam Ali(as).. and Umm Kulthoom marraige was in the time of abu bakr.. after Umar died.. Imam Ali(as) brought Umm kulthoom to her mother Asma.. "don't get deceived by hypocrites" wassalam
ReplyDeleteYawar Abbas
Salaams, Why is Umm Kulthoom identified as "daughter of Imam Ali (a.s.)" in these ahadith if she was not Imam Ali (a.s.)'s daughter?
DeleteQuran 033:004. Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his (one) body: nor has He made your wives whom ye divorce by Zihar your mothers: nor has He made your adopted sons your sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But Allah tells (you) the Truth, and He shows the (right) Way.
033:005. Call them by (the names of) their fathers: that is juster in the sight of Allah. But if ye know not their father's (names, call them) your Brothers in faith, or your maulas. But there is no blame on you if ye make a mistake therein: (what counts is) the intention of your hearts: and Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
Wassalaam
there's a difference between "adopted" and yewr "wife's children". after imam ali married asma bint e umays her children become imam ali's children and imam ali's children became asma bint e umays children. they were "MAHRAM" for each other.
Deleteso the first verse is totally irrelevant.
go check the context of the second verse its again for the adopted ones not the mahram ones.
so please go n find some other verses :)
she was bint e ali (as) because imam ali (as) married asma bint e umays. its as simple as that.
Salam Alaikum brother,
ReplyDeleteKeep up to post saheeh\hasan hadiths.
I want to know how old Umm Khultum was, when she married Omar?
Great Work...JazakAllah
ReplyDeleteIt seems that Umm Kulthum was not the biological daughter of Imam Ali (as), but was adopted after Abu Bakr died. In other words, she was the biological daughter of Abu Bakr. al-Nawawi for example says that Abu Bakr had a daughter called Umm Kulthum and she was the one who married Umar:
ReplyDeleteأختا عائشة: اللتان أرادهما أبو بكر الصديق، رضى الله عنه، بقوله لعائشة: إنما هما أخواك وأختاك، قالت: هذان أخواى، فمن أختاى؟ فقال: ذو بطن بنت خارجة، فإنى أظنها جارية. ذكر هذه القصة فى باب الهبة من المهذب، وقد تقدم بيانهما فى أسماء الرجال فى النوع الرابع فى الأخوة، وهاتان الأختان هما أسماء بنت أبى بكر، وأم كلثوم، وهى التى كانت حملاً، وقد تقدم هناك إيضاح القصة، وأم كلثوم هذه تزوجها عمر بن الخطاب، رضى الله عنه.
Tahdhib al-Asma wa al-Lughat, II, 630 (Beirut: Dar al-Fikr, 1996).
There is even this famous chain of narration in Sunni books where when mentioning Umm Kulthum, it says she is the daughter of Abu Bakr:
حدثنا عفان حدثنا حماد بن سلمة أخبرنا جبر بن حبيب عن أم كلثوم بنت أبي بكر عن عائشة أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم علمها هذا الدعاء اللهم إني أسألك من الخير كله عاجله وآجله ما علمت منه وما لم أعلم وأعوذ بك من الشر كله ما علمت منه وما لم أعلم اللهم إني أسألك من خير ما سألك عبدك ونبيك وأعوذ بك من شر ما عاذ به عبدك ونبيك اللهم إني أسألك الجنة وما قرب إليها من قول أو عمل وأعوذ بك من النار وما قرب إليها من قول أو عمل وأسألك أن تجعل كل قضاء تقضيه لي خيرا.
u kept asking ppl to bring Hadees of Masoom(as)to refute,but u'll reject it as zaeef,so why don't u bring Ayat E Quraani to prove the concept of verifying narrators.Quran clearly commands to verify news,not one who bring it.Take a look at this Ayat,and then bring Quranic reply.as Kafi is the same book,which brings the idea of distortion of Quran,so when an author can quote one grave wrong thing against Allah's promise to Protect Quran,then he can quote thousand other wrong things too.Now answer this Ayat"Quran; Sura 49, Verse 5:
ReplyDeleteيَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِنْ جَاءَكُمْ فَاسِقٌ بِنَبَإٍ فَتَبَيَّنُوا أَنْ تُصِيبُوا قَوْمًا بِجَهَالَةٍ فَتُصْبِحُوا عَلَىٰ مَا فَعَلْتُمْ نَادِمِينَ
"O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done."
So which thing are we going to follow Quran,or rijal analysis,when a thing is blasphemous we should only consider it true due to it's narrators?were narrators infallibles?
And even Masoomeen(as)refute the idea of rijaal analysis in these traditions,one is from ur beloved Kafi
1) Tafseer Al Ayyashi - Chapter on the abandonment of Hadees that is contradictory to the Quran
عن محمد بن مسلم قال: قال ابوعبدالله (عليه السلام): يا محمد ما جائك في رواية من بر أو فاجر يوافق القرآن فخذ به، وما جائك في رواية من بر او فاجر يخالف القرآن فلا تأخذ به
Abu Abdillah (as) said:
"O Muhammad, whatever comes to you in a narration from a righteous person or an immoral person that agrees with the Quran, then take hold of it. And whatever comes to in a narration from a righteous person or an immoral person that contradicts the Quran, then do not take hold of it."
See more here: http://www.tashayyu.org/hadiths/quran/abandoning-narrations-that-are-contrary-to-the-quran
2) Al Kafi : The Book on Virtue of Knowledge : H 197, Ch. 22, h2
Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from ‘Abd Allah ibn Muhammad from Ali ibn al-Hakam from Aban ibn ‘Uthman from 'Abd Allah ibn abu Ya‘fur who has said the following.
أنه حضر ابن أبي يعفور في هذا المجلس قال: سألت أبا عبدالله (عليه السلام) عن اختلاف الحديث يرويه من نثق به ومنهم من لا تثق به؟ قال إذا ورد عليكم حديث فوجدتم له شاهدا من كتاب الله أو من قول رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) وإلا فالذي جاء كم به أولى به
"In a meeting where ibn abu Ya‘fur was also present I asked Imam abu ‘Abd Allah (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) about the differences in Hadith which is narrated from people whom we trust and yet from other people we do not trust." The Imam replied, "If you come across a Hadith and you find evidence in the Holy Quran to support it or in Hadith of the Holy Prophet (you may follow it), ..... "
[Note: This hadees is Saheeh as per Ilm-e-Rijaal as well]
So what we are going to believe then narrators only?He is the same Ali(as)who didn't let anyone dig the grave of His Wife(as),now all of a sudden,He become afraid of them.Nauzbillah.He didn't pick up sword that was a matter of obedience,but nobody could subdue Ali(as),as nobody could do His Son,Hussain(as)in face of oppression,They prefer to die than to subdue.It's far beyond the Pure self of Bibi Pak Syeda Umme Kulsoom(as)to get related with illegitmate killer of her Mother,an apostate.And it's a greatest blasphemy to even believe it,let alone propogation.Bring Ayat to prove ur point,don't ask others to bring traditions,one Ayat is enough to reject your whole contrivance.
And if u say except Imam Hussain(as)all others practiced Taqiyya,taqqiya was for followers of Aimma(as),if Imams were in taqqiya,why were they always seen as threats,and kept in prisons,because they never bow down to oppressors of any age,and as far as 'burning door'of Syeda(as)is concerned,Imam(as)wasn't watching a spectacle,but He was arrested.It's far different to maintain Sabr,and submission to wrong-doer.Why was the door burnt,because they wanted bayah from Him.He let His house burn,but didn't subdue,that incident tell us His steadfastness in face of tyrrany,not complacency to evil.
ReplyDeleteAnd Imams(as)cannot use the cheap language,as mentioned by kafi,no matter,wtever meaning u draw.When in court of yazed somebody asks for daughter of Imam Ali(as),how Bibi Zainab(as)protected Her Sister,from oppressor such as yazed,when Daughter can save a Sister from much big tyrant,couldn't the Father protect His Daughter.When Bibi Zainab(as)wasn't afraid how her Father could be?that is insanity to believe so.
ReplyDeleteSo, facts are like this:
ReplyDelete1. Umar threatened to kill not only Ali, but also to destroy whole Bani Hashim.
2. This frightened Abbas, and he asked Ali in name of lives of his clan to give the decision in his hands. And Ali had to agree with it while it concerned their lives too.
3. There is a Sahih tradition in Sunni books that Ibrahim (as) and his wife were travelling and they were caught by the soldiers of a King.
Ibrahim (as) knew if he tells the King that she was his wife, then King will kill both of them.
Therefore Ibrahim (as) told the king that she was her sister. And Ibrahim (as) also gave her in marriage of that cruel King.
Could any one locate this story of Ibrahim from Sunni sources?
The story of Hazrat Ibrahim giving his wife in marriage to the cruel King is not true. Further more it cannot be true. Allah has taken upon himself to protect the honur of families of the prophets. Just as he protected the honour of Hazrat Yousuf.
Deleteumar could destroy bani Hashim on the matter of bayat too,as he fell door on Syeda(as)for this still Imam(as)didn't bow down,even in the face of this of threats of burning their house,which actually took place.As far as Ibrahim(as)'s story is concerned,there are lot more tales about prophets,which degrade their honour,so we are not going to take everything,secondly,even in their tradition,that king couldn't marry Sarah,because of Allah's wrath,so couldn't he protect the daughter of Syeda(as),the one who saved Khawla bint e Jaffer(as)from umar's hand,couldn't do so for the honour of His Last Prophet(saww)'s Family.Fear Allah.
ReplyDelete2104. It is related that Abu Hurayra said that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Ibrahim, peace be upon him, emigrated with Sarah and he entered a town in which there was a certain king or tyrant. The king was told that Ibrahim had come with a woman who was one of the most beautiful of women. He sent a message to him asking, 'Ibrahim, who is this woman with you?' He answered, 'MY SISTER.' Then Ibrahim returned to her and said, 'Do not contradict what I have said. I have told them that YOU ARE MY SISTER. By Allah, there are no believers on the earth except me and you.' Ibrahim sent her to the king. He went to her and she got up and did wudu' and prayed and said, 'O Allah, I believe in You and Your Messenger and I have protected my private parts from everyone but my husband. Do not give the unbeliever power over me.' He began to make snorting noises and his legs started thrashing about." ... (Aisha Bewley, The Sahih Collection of al-Bukhari, Chapter 37. Book of Sales, C: Buying a slave from someone with whom you are at war and then giving him away and freeing him
ReplyDeleteNarrated Abu Huraira:
ReplyDeleteAbraham did not tell a lie except on three occasions. Twice for the Sake of Allah when he said, "I am sick," and he said, "(I have not done this but) the big idol has done it." The (third was) that while Abraham and Sarah (his wife) were going (on a journey) they passed by (the territory of) a tyrant. Someone said to the tyrant, "This man (i.e. Abraham) is accompanied by a very charming lady." So, he sent for Abraham and asked him about Sarah saying, "Who is this lady?" Abraham said, "She is my sister." Abraham went to Sarah and said, "O Sarah! There are no believers on the surface of the earth except you and I. This man asked me about you and I have told him that you are my sister, so don't contradict my statement." The tyrant then called Sarah and when she went to him, he tried to take hold of her with his hand, but (his hand got stiff and) he was confounded. He asked Sarah. "Pray to Allah for me, and I shall not harm you." So Sarah asked Allah to cure him and he got cured. He tried to take hold of her for the second time, but (his hand got as stiff as or stiffer than before and) was more confounded. He again requested Sarah, "Pray to Allah for me, and I will not harm you." Sarah asked Allah again and he became all right. He then called one of his guards (who had brought her) and said, "You have not brought me a human being but have brought me a devil." The tyrant then gave Hajar as a girl-servant to Sarah. Sarah came back (to Abraham) while he was praying. Abraham, gesturing with his hand, asked, "What has happened?" She replied, "Allah has spoiled the evil plot of the infidel (or immoral person) and gave me Hajar for service." (Abu Huraira then addressed his listeners saying, "That (Hajar) was your mother, O Bani Ma-is-Sama (i.e. the Arabs, the descendants of Ishmael, Hajar's son)." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 578)
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "The Prophet Abraham emigrated with Sarah and entered a village where there was a king or a tyrant. (The king) was told that Abraham had entered (the village) accompanied by a woman who was one of the most charming women. So, the king sent for Abraham and asked, 'O Abraham! Who is this lady accompanying you?' Abraham replied, 'She is my sister (i.e. in religion).' Then Abraham returned to her and said, 'Do not contradict my statement, for I have informed them that you are my sister. By Allah, there are no true believers on this land except you and I.' Then Abraham sent her to the king. When the king got to her, she got up and performed ablution, prayed and said, 'O Allah! If I have believed in You and Your Apostle, and have saved my private parts from everybody except my husband, then please do not let this pagan overpower me.' On that the king fell in a mood of agitation and started moving his legs. Seeing the condition of the king, Sarah said, 'O Allah! If he should die, the people will say that I have killed him.' The king regained his power, and proceeded towards her but she got up again and performed ablution, prayed and said, 'O Allah! If I have believed in You and Your Apostle and have kept my private parts safe from all except my husband, then please do not let this pagan overpower me.' The king again fell in a mood of agitation and started moving his legs. On seeing that state of the king, Sarah said, 'O Allah! If he should die, the people will say that I have killed him.' The king got either two or three attacks, and after recovering from the last attack he said, 'By Allah! You have sent a satan to me. Take her to Abraham and give her Ajar.' So she came back to Abraham and said, 'Allah humiliated the pagan and gave us a slavegirl for service." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 34, Number 420)
So even if we take this sunni tradition into account,what is seen, Allah is capable enough to protect the honour of His Prophets,so how could He just refrain from interfering into matter regarding the honour of His most Beloved Messenger(saww)?
ReplyDeleteIt is written in the book of Hazrat Ali Hajveri Al Maroof Hazrat Data Ganj Bakhash R.A that Marriage was happened between Hazrat Umar and Hazrat Umme Kalsoom Binte Ali R.A. The book is Kashaf Al Mahjoob.........
ReplyDeleteno thanx!much more is written in the book,for the sake of a book,we just can't go against Ismaa(purity)of our Bibi(as)
ReplyDeleteCan you please tell the year of marriage of Bibi Umme Kulsum.
ReplyDeleteBeing honest is the hardest of things to implement upon yourself.........Extremist shias are just putting fwd lame excuses...........
ReplyDeleteAssalāmu `Alaykum,
ReplyDeleteYou guys act as if I brought out just one ḥadīth from the Ahl al-Bayt (عليهم السلام) that confirm this marriage, instead I brought out multiple amounts of ḥadīth, through the most trustworthy and biggest of narrators. Yet, you reject this, because of your preconceived notions and beliefs? Because your `aql cannot fathom Imām `Alī (عليه السلام) caring about his own life? He knew that Allāh (عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ) had much bigger and better plans for him.
Find me an authentic Shī`ah ḥadīth that refutes this marriage from taking place, then and only then will I deny that this marriage ever happened. Or, bring me an authentic Shī`ah ḥadīth that says that the Umm Kulthūm that `Umar married was not Umm Kulthūm bint `Alī, but another one. But you will not find an authentic ḥadīth that says those things, because they do not exist.
Wa `Alaykum Assalām
You did n't answer any of the logical objections and started on authentic and authentic.The Ahadees which we will present you will call them zaeef,which are referred to from ulema who know more than you.The biggest proof is Ayat e Tatheer.Now you'll say Bibi Kulsoom(as) was not Ahlebait(as),then why were they referred so by Imam Sajjad(as),and other Masoomeen(as),as ladies of Ahlebait(as).umar was rijs and rijs could n't come near them.
ReplyDeleteYes our aqals don't fathom about our Imam(as) compromising on His honor.Bring us an authentic Hadees asking to rely on ilm e rijaal?
I don't understand all the rejection I see here. The sanad is OK. Our prominent `ulama accept this. The matn is also fine since it's not like Imam `Ali (as) willingly to do this to praise `Umar or elevate his status. It's probability of this being true is much larger than it's being false. So, the logical step is to accept this.
ReplyDeleteDoes anybody know the view of our urafa, what they say? They could contact the world of unseen or ask about this issue from Imam Zaman (ATFS).
ReplyDeleteHow can be explained the marriage of Asiya the wife of total kafir Pharaoh?
Which prominent ulema? Khoei is not alive to make clarification.The earlier scholars like Sadooq,and Mufeed did n't accept it.Imam Ali(as) even unwillingly was n't helpless to protect His honor.Its probability being false is much larger than its being true.Ahlebait(as) are protected from impurity,so what nasibi like umar was? As for Asiya(as)She was a momina but not one of the Ahlebait(as).Neither She was a daughter of any Masoom,and Masooma.Those who were not allowed to see the funeral of Syeda Kulsoom(as)'s Mother,let alone this farce could happen.
ReplyDeleteWhich prominent ulema?
Deletefor example what said Khomeini, Bahjat or Qazi Tabatabai?
It was said that Bibi Kulsoom(as) from Ahlebait(as), so the Ayat e Tatheer can be used as proof.
Can anybody, using dalil, give me exact information, who Ahlebait(as) are?
why in Shiite Encyclopedia http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter1a/3.html
written:
To the Shia, the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) consist of the following individuals ONLY:
Fatimah al-Zahra (AS),
Imam Ali (AS),
Imam al-Hasan (AS),
Imam al-Husain (AS),
Nine descendants of Imam al-Husain (AS).
and including the Prophet (PBUH&HF) himself, they will become fourteen individuals.
Yes Ayat e Tatheer is proof,why Imam Zain ul Abideen(as) referred them as ladies of Ahlebait(as)? Why Syeda Zainab(as) herself part of Ahlebait(as) in court of syria,they know about themselves more than al islam.org.
DeleteAnd what about khomoeni,behjat you said.None of them is alive so attribute anything in their names,moreover they are not bigger hujjah than Quran.
Just saying is not dalil. Give me dalil(proof) that the Ayat e Tatheer also talks about Bibi Kulsoom(as).
ReplyDeleteDid not Imam Ali (a.s) said about Zubayr: Zubayr did not cease to be part of us Ahl al-Bayt, until his son Abdullah grew up, and he overcame him . ?
http://www.shiaforums.com/vb/f195/imam-ali-s-zubayr-did-not-cease-part-us-ahl-al-bayt-until-his-son-abdullah-grew-up-he-overcame-him-8527/#.UCuLS6kaNK8
Anybody says that the Ayat e Tatheer talks about Zubayr?
How on Earth was zubayr part of Ahlebait(as)?its actually ridiculous.If there was any narration then it must have been fabricated what zubayr had to do with them?
DeleteAnd yes Ayat e Tatheer is for every member of Ahlebait(as) whether its Bibi Kulsoom(as) or Her elder Sister.What did Bibi Kulsoom(as) said while entering Madina,read her sermon where She said that ''they unveiled ladies of Ahlebait(as)'',its unanimously uttered by ulema when referred to Ladies in Karbala as Ahlebait(as).When they left Madina it was announced that 'lower your gaze Ahlebait(as) are leaving.On Ashura Imam(as) paid His farewell in similar manner.When its proven they were Ahlebait(as) then what else is needed.Ayat e Tatheer is for Ahlebait(as) and She is one of them.
Saying that you are from us by no means declare anyone part of Ahlebait(as),they clearly meant part of Shian e Ali(as),not Family.Yes it is said for Salman farsi(as),but it was meant to honor him.If you start taking it literally,then do we find progeny of Salman(as) anywhere calling them Syeds,but children of Janab e Syeda(as) are entirely different.Syeda Zainab(as) has been given knowledge directly from God without a teacher which is daleel of Her Ismaa,whereas we see Salman(as) had a teachers in form of Prophet(saww),and Imams(as).If something was said merely to honor his devotion it does n't mean,He attains same level of Ismaa.Did he call himself syed? did he become mahram to Ladies? No,then stop taking it literally.
ReplyDeletelogical reasoning is not sufficient in this matter. if we want to say that Ayat e Tatheer talks about somebody else than 14 Masoom we should have exact daleel from our Masoom(as).
ReplyDeleteWord "Ahlbayt" can be used in different meanings.
As for saying "from us" it is not just Shian e Ali(as). It also idicates that shias have direct connection to the essence of Ahlbayt(as). Imam Abā al-Hasan (as) said:
"because they are from us, and they are created from our clay."
http://www.revivingalislam.com/2011/09/honor-of-shia.html
Its not merely logical reasoning but Ayat e Tatheer is clearly mentioning Ahlebait(as),now whoever is literally part of Ahlebait(as) is included.Is there any Hadees suggesting that this Ayat is not for anyone else than 14 MASOOMEEN(AS)? As apart from Five others were not born yet.When Imam Zain ul Abideen(as) said in His Khutba,''i am the son of Mothers whose cloaks can become covers of Quran''.What one gets from it? Who are Mothers here?As plural form is being used,and His Aunts were standing by bare headed. And how are they that Tahiraa? The things are quite clear.
DeleteNader zaveri Firstly u should know that MAJORITY of the shia scholars have denied this marriage So u think they have not read all these hadiths?? And secondly u should know that according to sunni sources the daughter of imam ali who married to umar died along with her son and was not present during the tragedy of karbala but umme kulthum was present in karabala so this is again contradicting and thirdly there are hardly any details for this marriage in the books of the both sects and lastly u should know that there were 2 umme kulthums in the house of imam ali one was the daughter of fatima zahra and the other was the daughter of asma who was the wife of abu bakr so even if i agree with the above traditions that the marriage actually took place then too it can be any umme kulthum how can u be say that the umme kulthum who married to umar was the daughter of fatima zahra(as).
ReplyDeleteHazrat Umme Kulsoom binte Ali (a s) was married to Hazrat Mohammad Ibne Jaffar e Tayyar a Cousin of Maula Ali (a s).
ReplyDeleteUmar bin Khattab had one or possibly 2 wives of the same name.It was a popular name then.
There have been never any dearth of fake and fabricated ahadees .
It is next to impossible that Hazrat Ali Ibne Abi Talib (a s) could have been
forced to accept the proposal from a killer of his son & wife .
Don't create FITNAH by bringing such absurdities in print .
Salaam Brother.
ReplyDeleteMasha-ALLAH very nice article have you written. The fact that Hadhrat Umar (r.a) had married Hadhrat Umm-e-Kulthum (r.a) who was from Ahlul-Bayt proves without any doubt that there is love and respect between Ahlul-Bayt and Sahabas especially between Hadhrat Umar (r.a) and Ahlul-Bayt. As Shias could not accept this fact so they forged hadiths (and their classical scholars authenticated those hadiths) to make this marriage look forceful.
@ anonymous.....its also possible for a Sunni to change hadis...why does it always be a Shia. Why don't Sunnis ever talk about ahlal bayt....they are always talking about sahabas...but hardly about ahlal bayt...I go to Sunni masjids in USA...most of them are funded by Saud wahabis...they are friends of yahoods nasara...according to Surah Maida they are not Muslims...my question to you is why has the Sunni ulama not recognized it....yet majority of Muslims Shia Sunni alike give money to a non Muslim government for hajj...is that considered "halal, haram. Bidat," what category does that fall in too...is our hajj accepted....most Sunni countries governments are agents of yahoods nasara
ReplyDeleteAlso am sick and tired of the differences...why can't we come to common terms ..we all believe in Allah, Quran. rasul..ahlal bayt...rightious sahabas...and one ummat...the good the bad and the ugly..
ReplyDeleteThere are strong arguments on both sides shias and Sunnis....arguing, bickering, differences is not going to solve anything except for more animosity
I am Muslim...we all are except some Yankee jihadist...who r funded by yahood nasara to generate more animosity....remind you to read Surah Maida....and pick sides...don't join yahood nasara...simple
Mr. Nadeem,first of all let me tell u clearly dat u r definitely not a shia bcoz u r trying to defend umar through this forged marriage,th same umar who killed d best woman n d mother of janabe Umme kulthum.
DeleteRefer umar-ibn-khattab.blogspot.com toknow y ali would not marry his daughter to umar.
DeleteRead with open mind u will find lot of refernces from both
Nader Zaveri is not reviving islam ,but he is more interested in covering the fault of Umar..
ReplyDeleteHe is trying to prove from shia literature that such a marriage took place.
OK,
Even for the sake of argument if we accept such a marriage took place.
1. Can he tell me the reason Why Ali would marry his daughter to the killer of fatima ?
2. Would Umme Kulthum binte Ali give her consent to marry the killer of her mother ? ( In Islam consent of girl is necessary and she cannot be forced to marry the man by anyone )
3. Did Ali(AS) forced her daughter to marry ?. if not then how could Umme Kulthum marry such a man without her wish.
4. Did Umar forced Ali (AS) to marry his daughter to him ?
If the answer is YES, Is it allowed in Islam to do the same ?
If the answer is NO, then what prompted ALI (AS) to marry his daughter to Umar who was her step great grand father ( Hafsa the daughter of Umar was the wife of Prophet(SAWA), the grandfather of Umme Kulthum).
5. Ali (AS) in one of his Sahih tradition had said that his daughters are for his brother's sons.Then how can we accept the traditions of marriage of Umme Kulthum to Umar.
6. The Umme Kulthum married to Umar died during the life time of Imam Hasan and Imam Hussain, while history proved beyond doubts that Umme Kulthum binte Ali accompanied her brother Imam Hussain in Karbala and was taken as a captive by Yazid's army. This proved that Umme Kulthum married to Umar was not Umme Kulthum binte Ali(AS).
Sunni historians says that Umme Kulthum, the wife of Umar ,and Zayd, her son died in the same year.
It means that this is some other Umme Kulthum and historian got confused due to similar names.
Regarding that Umme Kulthum,whom Ali brought his home after the death of Umar was Umme Kulthum binte Abu BAkr. This was because Abu Bakr's wife married Ali(AS) after his death and hence Ali was also the guardian of Umme Kulthum binte Abu Bakr ,becoz of this marriage.
I would advise Mr. Nader Zaveri to do his home work properly because the proofs and references presented by him in his site are already answered several times by our esteemed scholars.
Umar did not kill fatima... this a persian bs story which was forged in ur books since they vowed to take revenge from the Muslims after the defeat of the sassanid empire. u have been brain washed... repent immediately
DeleteBrother Abdullah, salam, one possible reason to your questions can be that perhaps Hazrat Ali did, at that point in time, view Hazrat Umar with much more sympathy than our Shia brothers view him later.
DeleteAl - Khoei said : Such a Thing is found in history.
ReplyDeleteYou know that a lot of fabrication in history was made during the time of Muawiya. !!!
Does Khoei said that Umar indeed married Umme Kulthum binte Ali ???
حضرت بی بی ام کلثوم کی شادی کی جو روایات شعیہ کتب میں ہیں ان کے راوی قابل اعتبار نہیں ہیں ؛اور اس کی تفصیلات رجال کشی ص ۲۹۳ پہ شعیہ کی کتابوں میں جو حوالات ہیں ان کے راویوں کے حالات پر روشنی موجود ہے۔
ReplyDeleteرجال کشی ص ۱۸۴
رجال کشی ۱۸۳ میں ہشام بن سالم کے حالات جس سے کافی میں یہ روایات ہیں۔
ان روایات میں سے اک کا راوی حماد بن یزید بھی ہے جو کہ شعیہ نہ تھا (خلاصتہ الاقوال ص۲۱۹)
ناسخ التواریخ جلد نمبر ۳ ص ۴۰۸
اس نکاح کی تردید میں امام جعفر صادق کا بیان
اب زرا اہل سنت کی کتابوں میں موجود روایات کو دیکھیے جن سے اس واقعہ کو اچھالا جاتا ہے اور اک بار عقل کی کسوٹی پہ پرکھہ کے بتایے گا کہ کیا یہ واقعات اہل سنت کی کتابوں کا معیار اور ان کا پروپیگنڈہ ظاہر کرنے کے لیے کافی نہیں؟
پہلے میں آپ کو وہ تمام حوالات دیتی ہوں جو اس واقعہ کے لیے اہل سنت کی کتابوں سے آپ کو ملیں گے ۔
۱ ذخایر العقبی ص ۱۶۸
یہ روایت ابن اسحاق نے عاصم بن عمر بن قتادہ سے روایت کیا ہے اور ابن اسحاق جس کو یحیی قطان نے کذاب کہا ؛مالک نے دجال کہا اور سلیمان نے تمیمی نے بھی کذاب کہا دار قطنی نے کہا کہ قابل احتجاج نہیں ہے (میزان الاعتدال جلد نمر ۳ ص ۶۱
استعاب جلد نمبر۲ ص۴۲۷
زبیر بن بکار سے یہ روایت ہے اس کی حدیث ناقابل قبول ہے اور یہ حدیث گھڑتا ہے (میزان الاعتدال جلد نمبر ۱ ص ۳۲۰
تیسری روایت اصابہ جلد ۶ ص۴۲۴
یہ روایت سفیان نے عمر بن دینار سے مروی کی ہے امام احمد کہتے ہیں کہ ابن دینار ضعیف ہے امام نسایی اور مرہ نے بھی ضعیف کہا ہے (میزان الاعتدال جلد ۲ ص۲۸۷
چوتھی روایت طبقات ابن سعد جلد ۸ ص۴۶۴
یہ روایت ابن سعد نے محمد بن عمر واقدی سے روایت کی ہے؛امام نسای نے کہا ہے کہ واقدی کذاب ہے اور بغداد میں اپنی کذب بیانی کی وجہ سے مشہور ہے (تہذیب التہذیب جلد ۹ ص۳۶۶
استعیاب جلد ۴ میں حضرت عمر کی ام کلثوم سے دست درازی اور جبر کی ساری تفصیلات موجود ہیں
اس کے علاوہ انھیں کم سن بتایا جاتا ہے تو نکاح میں ولی کی اجازت اور اگر بالغ بتایا جاتا ہے تو لڑکی کی مرضی نہیں ملتی ؛اب اس سے ان روایات کی صداقت کا خود ہی اندازہ لگا سکتے ہیں ۔
کتاب سیرت میں ص۴۶۴ میں ہے کہ حضرت عمر نے صحابہ سے کہا مجھے ام کلثوم سے نکاح پر مبارک باد دو ؛اس کا مطلب یہ ہوا کہ خلیفہ کا نکاح اور وہ بھی ایک ایسی بچی سے جس کے ساتھ نکاح کو خلیفہ نے اپنے آپ کا اہل بیت کے ساتھ رشتہ جوڑنےپر فخر سمجھا ہو اس کی اطلاع صحابہ کو نہ دی گی ہو اور نہ کسی کو مدعو کیا گیا ہو؛
طبقات ابن سعد میں ہے کہ حضرت عمر نے حق مہر چالیس ہزار درہم رکھا جو کہ اس روایت سے مخالف ہے کہ حضرت عمر نے خود کہا کہ حق مہر زیادہ نہ ہونا چاہیے ؛
پھر اس کے بعد سنن نسای جلد نمبر ۱ کتاب الجنایز باب اجتماع جنایز الرجال والنساء ص ۳۶۷مطبوعہ دہلی میں ہے کہ ام کلثوم اور اور زید ان کے بیٹے کا جنازہ اک ساتھ پڑھایا گیا
تاریخ الصغیر الامام بخاری ص ۵۳ مطبوعہ آلہ آباد) نماز جنازہ میں شریک ہونے والوں اہل بیت کے نام بھی ہیں اس روایت سے بھی آپ کے یہاں ان کے وصال کا ثبوت ملتا ہے
اس کے علاوہ ام کلثوم اور ان کے بیٹے زید کا جنازہ سے متعلق روایات آپ ین کتابوں میں بھی دیکھ سکتے ہیں
۱ سنن ابو داود جلد ۲ ص ۴۵۵
۲ دار قطنی جلد ۱ ص ۱۹۴ مطبوعہ دہلی
۳ مستدرک جلد ۳ ص ۱۴۲ مطبوعہ دکن
۴ کتاب المعارف ص ۷۰ مطبوعہ مصر
۵ تاریخ الامم والملوک جلد ۵ ص ۱۶ مطبوعہ مصر
علامہ ابن اثیر نے ص ۲۳ پہ بتایا کہ ام کلثوم یہ ام کلثوم حضرت ابو بکر کی بیٹی تھی
علامہ ابن حجر عسقلانی نے اصابہ ۳۴۳ پر لکھا ہے کہ یہ ابو بکر کی بیٹی تھی
یہ تو وہ تمام حوالات ہیں جن کے اختلاف خود اس واقع کی حقیقت سے اک کھلا انکار ہے لیکن اس کے ساتھ ساتھ جن کتابوں میں اس شادی کو زیر بحث لایا گیا ہے ان کو پڑھیے گا تو آپ کو سواے شرمندگی کے کچھ حاصل نہ ہو گا کیونکہ اک عقل مند آدمی کبھی بھی اس بات کو قبول نہیں کر سکتا کہ مسلمانوں کے دوسرے خلیفہ کو نسبت رسول صل اللہ علیہ وسلم سے ایسا لگاو پیدا ہوا کہ اک کم سن کی بچی کو بھی نہ چھوڑا جبکہ اس کی بڑی بہن بھی موجود تھی ؛اور پہلے سے خود اپنی بیٹی کی شادی رسول صل اللہ علیہ وسلم سے کر کے نسبت رسول کا اعزاز حاصل بھی کر چکے تھے ؛اور جس طریقے سے اس واقع کی تفصیلات لکھی گی ہیں وہ بھی اک سراسر توہین صحابہ کے علاوہ کچھ نہیں ؛میں تو چاہوں گی کہ آپ ان کتابوں میں خود اس واقع کو پڑھیں تاکہ آپ کو پتہ چ
لے کہ کس طرح صحابہ کی شان بڑھانے کی جاہلانہ کو شش نے اسلام کی معتبر ہستیوں کو زمانے کے سامنے اک شرمندہ تعبیر بنا کے رکھ دیا ہے
دوسری بات یہ کہ ام کلثوم کی شادی کا واقعہ نہ تو صحیح بخاری میں ہے اور نہ صحیح مسلم میں حتی کسی بھی صحاح ستہ میں نہیں ہے اور اہل سنت کی کسی بھی مشہور مسانید و معاجم میں بھی اس قسم کی کوئی اثر موجود نہیں ہے ۔
ReplyDeleteKeeping aside all the things : Does it make sense for Imam Ali(as) to marry his young daughter to her step great grand father ( Umar ) who is also the usurper of her property of FADAK due to which her mother died in grief and was angry on them(Umar and Abu Bakr)???? ( Refer : Sahih Bukhari )
ReplyDeleteUmar and Abu Bakr forced Ali (AS) for pledge of allegiance.
These two did not accept Quran from Ali(AS).
Umar was involved in the killing of Fatima(AS) ( Refer Sunni References on our site on this matter )
Tell me why why Ali would marry his daughter to such a man.???
And even if Imam Ali(AS) gave his consent, will Umme Kulthum marry such a man ??
And why would Umme Kulthum marry an old man( Umar) when she could easily marry young man from Bani Hashim.??
The myth of this marriage of Umme Kulthum is a fabrication done by the historians to elevate the status of Umar.
But logically seeing the incidents which took place after the demise of Holy Prophet(SAWA) , such a marriage could never take place because Imam Ali (AS) had the better option of marrying his daughter to his brother's son.And these things are proven from history.
Refer this online book :
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mediafire.com/view/5vyxzs638133a5b/Abdul+Kareem+Mushtaq+-+Aqad+Umeh+Kalsoum+%28A.S%29.pdf
THE ONE WHO CAN BURN HOUSE OF FATIMA, WHO CAN PUT A ROPE ARROUND ALEE'S THROAT,WHO CAN THROW A DOOR OVER THE DAUGHTER OF THE PROPHET PBUH, HE CAN GO TO ANY EXTENT. SEARCH YOUR BOOKS WITH FULL HONESTY AND THINK OVER THE HELPLESSNESS OF ALEE
ReplyDeleteThere are two traditions (hadiths) narrated by Hisham bin Salim al-Jawaliqi regarding the story of Umm Kulthum’s (peace be upon her) marriage to Umar (May the curse of Allah be upon him), neither of which indicates that the marriage has actually occurred.
ReplyDeleteThe first tradition is from Ali bin Ibrahim from his father from Ibn Abi Umayr from Hisham bin Salim and Hammad from Zurarah who narrates that Imam Abi Abdullah al-Sadiq (peace be upon him) said regarding the marriage of Umm Kulthum “That was a Faraj which was taken from us by force” (al-Kafi by al-Kulayni, vol. 5 p. 346).
The phrase ‘Faraj’ was used as a metaphor for the Arabic phrase ‘Irdh’ which means one’s honour (i.e. the direct Irdh for a man is his female relatives such as his mother, wife, sisters, etc.). This has been explained in Bihar ul Anwar by Allamah Majlesi (May God rest his soul in peace).
If we assumed that this tradition was not said based on Taqiyya (the concealment of one’s faith when facing imminent danger to one’s life) then in other words it would mean “our opponents enemies who floated this fabricated story (of the marriage) had taken this Faraj (i.e. Irdh) from us by force”.
The second tradition, with the same Sanad as the previous one, however is from Muhammad ibn Abi Umayr from Hisham bin Salim, who narrates that Imam Abi Abdullah al-Sadiq (peace be upon him) said: “When [Umar] proposed to Amir al-Mu’minin, he [Amir al-Mu’minin] said: ‘She is a child.’
“Then he [Umar] met Abbas and asked him: ‘What is wrong with me? Is there a problem with me?’ Abbas asked: ‘Why?’ Umar replied: ‘I asked your nephew for his daughter’s hand in marriage, and he rejected me. Oh, I swear by Allah, I will fill the well of Zamzam with earth, I will destroy every honour that you have, and I will set up two witnesses to testify that he [Imam Ali peace be upon him] stole, that I may cut off his right hand.’ Abbas thereupon came to Imam Ali (peace be upon him) and informed him of what had transpired. He asked Imam Ali (peace be upon him) to put the matter in his hands, and He complied." (The same previous reference)
If we assumed that this tradition also was not said based on Taqiyya then we would only find that Imam Ali (peace be upon him) let Abbas to deal with Umar’s rudeness and insolence in insisting the marriage (against their will). Meaning that we would not find any proof that the marriage actually occurred.
In fact that what has led some scholars to come to the conclusion that Umar could not get married to Umm Kulthum (peace be upon her) because as Imam Ali (peace be upon him) had put the matter in the hands of Abbas, Abbas delayed the marriage after he had made Umar believe that he would get him married to Umm Kulthum (peace be upon her).
ReplyDeleteDuring that time Umar (May the curse of Allah be upon him) got killed by Abu Lu'lu'ah (May Allah be pleased with him). Meaning that Umar was killed before he could get married to Umm Kulthum (peace be upon her).
This is on the assumption that the previous two traditions were not said based on Taqqiya used for safety reasons; otherwise there is a strong reasonable possibility that they were. For the reason that our Imams (peace be upon them) have advised us that in order for us to ensure whether a particular tradition ,attributed to them, is true or not, we should look it up in the books of Ahlul Khilaf (the opponents to Ahlulbayt). If we find it in their books then we should reject it as it will be either forged or said under Taqiyya (i.e. used to guard themselves against the oppressors).
And as we have originally found the traditions regarding Umm Kulthum’s (peace be upon her) marriage to Umar (May the curse of Allah be upon him) in the books of Ahlul Khilaf, then according to the advice given by our Imams, it is very likely that those traditions have been falsely attributed to the Imams (peace be upon them) and therefore one may doubt about their validity.
Whatever the case is; even if we assumed that the previous two traditions were not said under Taqiyya, and their interpretation was rather what the opponents of Ahlulbayt claimed it to be true, then they would demonstrate the fact that Umar threatened Amir al-Mu’minin that he would destroy a sign which was appointed by Allah (i.e. fill the well of Zamzam with earth) and cut off the right hand of Amir al-Mu’minin (peace be upon him), due to which Imam Ali (peace be upon him) had to forcibly put the matter in the hands of his uncle Abbas.
They would also demonstrate the fact that Lady Umm Kulthum (peace be upon her) had to forcibly accept that marriage for the sake of religion just how Lady Asiya Bint Muzahim had to sacrifice when she accepted to get married to the tyrant Pharaoh (May the curse of Allah be upon him).
The ignorant opponents of Ahlulbayt flew with joy over finding these two traditions by which they thought they could prove the marriage of their master Umar to Umm Kulthum. Had they payed more attention to the fact that by proving these traditions true they would only be proving the fact that their master Umar was a rapist tyrant who forced women to get married to him without even their guardian’s consent.
Umme kulsoom was also a daughter of Abu Bakar ,After the death of abu bakr ,Hazrat Ali a.s married the widow of Abu bakar...that was not the sayyida umme kulsoom but the daughter of abu bakar. w/salam
ReplyDelete
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what the hell is your problem?
DeleteSalam,
ReplyDeleteIf there are 5 riwayats for example quoting Sun moves round the earth with sahih Isnad will not make it a reality. It is not always the sanad which is important it is always the matan which should always be verified with Aql. I am not saying verification of narrators is of no use, but existence of few narrations with correct chain can not established a highly controversial and absurd historical event.
If it was the case, books of Ahl al Sunna would have flooded with narrations supporting this event and there did not exists anything significant in this matter. I have no problem establishing details of furu e deen on the basis of 4 sahih us sanad riwayat but to accept authenticity of such controversial historical even the basis of this is highly unlikely.
W.salam
Umar bin Adheena asked Imam Ja'far Sadiq 'People claim that 'Ali married his daughter to such a person'. The Imam, who was until then sitting down, stood up and said angrily, "Whoever holds such a viewpoint is misled." Subhanallah! Was Imam 'Ali unable to free his daughter from their clutches? He could have stood between them and her to protect, they have fabricated a lie".
ReplyDeleteNasehkul Tawareekh Volume 3 page 408:
sunni historians say..that umme kulsum married aun bin jaffar tayyar after umar died...and again mention that aun bin jaffar tayyar died in 17th hijri during umar's era...funny
ReplyDeletesunni historians say..that umme kulsum married aun bin jaffar tayyar after umar died...and again mention that aun bin jaffar tayyar died in 17th hijri during umar's era...funny
ReplyDelete@Nader ZAVERI
ReplyDeleteWhy u missed this?
Umar bin Adheena asked Imam Ja'far Sadiq 'People claim that 'Ali married his daughter to such a person'. The Imam, who was until then sitting down, stood up and said angrily, "Whoever holds such a viewpoint is misled." Subhanallah! Was Imam 'Ali unable to free his daughter from their clutches? He could have stood between them and her to protect, they have fabricated a lie".
Nasehkul Tawareekh Volume 3 page 408:
Salam Brother's,
ReplyDeleteToo Long Q&A. Was walking through the whole discussion. Will make one point and move. Quran does not have zaeef/weak/majhul source and everyone believes it, so I am referring Quran Verse.
[Sura Nisa:22&23]
[Sura Nisa:22] And marry not the woman whom your fathers married, except what has already passed; this surely is indecent and hateful, and it is an evil way
[Sura Nida:23]
Forbidden to you are your mothers and your daughters and your sisters and
your paternal aunts and your maternal aunts and brothers' daughters and
sisters' daughters and your mothers that have suckled you and your fostersisters and mothers of your wives and your step-daughters who are in your guardianship, (born) of your wives to whom you have gone in, but if you have not gone in to them, there is no blame on you (in marrying them), and the wives of your sons who are of your own loins and that you should have two sisters together, except what has already passed; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful"
As per Islam "If one marries her daughter to a person then that person cannot marry his Son-in Law daughter or Grand Daughter."
Ex: Say A person "X" marries his daughter to "Y", so "X: cannot marry "Y" daughters, since its her grand child.
Now Omer was father of Hafsa, so Prohet Mohammed pbuh was Son in Law of Omer l.a and Umm Kulsoom was grand daughter of Prophet Mohammed pbuh. How come in Islamic World it is possible.
Hope it clears lots of questions.
Thanks to my Dad for clearing it.
Syed Yousha Hyder.
syedyousha79@gmail.com
I totally agree with you Syed Hyder. 'Umm Kulthoom' married to the second Caliph Umar (or 'Omar') was not the Biological Daughter of Imam Ali (a.s.), but the Daughter of first caliph Abu Bakr (born after his death) and his Wife Asma who Ali later married (during the reign of Umar). All the early reports in Hadiths are regarding this 'Umm Kulthoom bint Ali ibn Ali Talib' - we can call her 'bint Ali' as she was a neutralised daughter by the accord of her mother's marriage to Imam Ali. Also second proof is the Battle of Karbala where she accompanied with Imam Hussain (a.s.) and was present in the Court of Yazid (la) at Sham (Damascus, Syria). Umm Kuthoom bint Asma (or 'bint Ali'), the daughter of Abu Bakr died after the death of her husband Umar - and two children (or probably one) didn't survive either. These are the clear facts written both in the authentic Hadiths (of both Shia and Sunni theology/madhabs) and the Books of eminent historians. It's so simple to understand this - why refute this? Just claiming a handful of Hadiths (Sahih aur Absurd) doesn't make something true. Use your brain at least - 'ilm' and 'ijtihad' are also things mentioned in Qur'an. And, as proved by the Quranic Verse 22/23 of Surah Nidah that a man cannot marry his grand daughter - as Umar was the Biological Father of 'Hafza' who Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s.) had married, this makes the biological daughter of Ali (as) and Fatima (as) 'Umm Kulthoom bint Ali (or bint Fatima) the Grand Daughter of Hafza bint Umar. This means Umm Kulthoom bint Ali ibn Ali Talib was GREAT GRAND DAUGHTER OF CALIPH UMAR. The 'alleged' marriage is simply not possible on the verdict of Qur'an - NO OTHER PROOF IS NEEDED. IF YOU ASK FOR ONE, YOU CHALLENGE THE HOLY QUR'AN! AT LEAST DO NOT DO THAT. AND PLEASE, NO STUPID, RIDICULOUS, IGNORANT OR HATEFUL COMMENT! THE ALMIGHTY ALLAH (SUBHAN-WA-TA'ALA) IS WATCHING ALL OF US. HE KNOWS THE BEST AND THE WHOLE OF TRUTH. AMEEN! SUMMA-AMEEN..!! ASSALAAMU ALAIKUM WA REHMATULLAH-E-WA-BARAKATAHU!
ReplyDeletehi dear wahabi kid nader zaveri first your stupid article doesnt prove anything that marriage of daughter of Ali a.s occur with umar la nor the authentic narrations u mentioned the name of ume kulthum bint ali a.s, second the narration in which umar la said i will cut ali a.s hand etc that also doesnt prov that marriage of daughter of ali a.s actually happened 3rd IF YOU ARE SO KNOWLEDGEABLE ON RIJAL AHADITH SHIA AND FOR PROVING THIS ALLEGED MARRIAGE OF DAUGHTER OF ALI A.S TO UMAR LANATULLAH ETC we challenge you to have audio debate on this matter two things we will prove 1 you are a wahabi clown 2nd this ume kulthum was the daughter of abu bakr
ReplyDeleteplz come to this account and add this account and write on this account to us your claim, so we could have an audio debate on this issue
here is the link https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009709630656
we will wait for you if u r a man!
Ghulam Hiader
"Also, the earliest sources that I see who denies the marriage of Umm Kulthoom to `Umar is from a ghuluww guy who is known to have bid`ah in his books. his name is Abol Qaasim Al-Koofee (`Alee bin aHmad). He is said to be ghuluww by all rijaal scholars Najaashee, GhaDaa'iree, Toosee, Khoei, and it is said his books contain bid`ah."
ReplyDeleteHmm... I saw a lot of ghuluww in here.
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ReplyDelete*سوال* ❓
ReplyDeleteحضرت عمر کا جنابِ سیدہ امِ کلثوم ؑ سے جو عقد (نکاح) مشہور ہے اس کے بارے میں وضاحت کریں-
*جواب📮*
تاریخ کے اس دھندلے ورق کو حقائق کا چشمہ لگا کر دیکھنے سے یہ تصویر بلکل روشن و صاف ہو جاتی ہے کہ ---حضرت عمر کے عقد میں ام کلثوم بنتِ ابوبکرؓ تھیں نہ کہ جنابِ امِ کلثوم بنت (علی و فاطمہ) صلوات اللہ علیہم اجمعین-
🔘• آیئے ذرا ان راوایات پہ غور کر لیتے ہیں جو اہل سنت مورخین نے لکھیں- کتاب ہدایہ السعداء صفہ 255 پر لکھا ہےکہ جس ام کلثوم کا عقد حضرت عمر سے ہوا اس کی عمر چاربرس سے لے کر پانچ برس تک تھی ادھر شبلی نعمانی الفارق میں صفہ 603 پہ لکھتے ہیں کہ 18 ہجری میں 40 ہزار درہم حق مہر پر ام کلثوم کا حضرت عمر سے نکاح ہوا- -اور ادھر تمام مورخین اس بات پہ متفق ہیں کہ *امِ کلثوم نے معملہ فَدک میں گواہی دی-* اور فدک کا واقعہ 11 ہجری میں پیش آیا اب قابل توجہ بات ہے کہ مذکورہ نظریہ کے حامیوں کی عقل کو جہالت کی زنگ لگ چکی ہے *ذرا غور تو کریں کہ جس لڑکی کی عمر 18 ہجری میں چار یا پانچ برس ہو وہ 11 ہجری میں کیسے پیدا ہو سکتی ہے اور مسئلہ فَدک کیسے گواہ بن سکتی ہے ?*
🔘• ازواجِ رسول اور اولادِ رسول صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم کا حق مہر ہمیشہ مہر سنت ہوا کرتا تھا جس کی *مقدار 500 درہم* سے زیادہ نہ تھی- لہٰذا 40 ہزار درہم حق مہر کا کہا جانا بھی صاحبانِ عقل کے ذہن میں اس عقد(عمر و امِ کلثوم) پہ ایک شک کو جنم دیتا ہے-
🔘• تاریخ خمیس روضۃ الاحباب - حبیب السیر میں ہے کہ امِ کلثوم کے حضرت عمر سے دو بچے ہوئے زید اور رقیہ- اور مذید یہ کہ ابن عمر اور امام حسن ؑ ابن علی المرتضیٰ عليه السّلام نے ام کلثوم کی وفات پر ان پر *نمازِ جنازہ پڑھی* اب غور کریں کہ امام حسن علیہ السّلام نے 49 یا 50 ہجری میں شہادت پائی تو امام حسن ؑ کی رحلت کے وقت تو وہ ام کلثوم *زندہ نہیں ہونی چاہیے کہ جس کی نماز جنازہ خود امام حسن علیہ السّلام پڑھ چکے ہیں* - ⏪لیکن اربابِ تاریخ نے جہاں واقعہ کربلا کا نقشہ کھینچا وہاں جنابِ امِ کلثوم بنتِ علی المرتضیٰ ؑ کو سرِ فہرست لکھا جبکہ وقعہ کربلا تو 61 ہجری میں پیش آیا - تحریر الشہادتین روضتہ الشہداء اور روضتہ الاحباب اور دیگر کتب(جن میں واقعہ کربلا درج ہے) میں سیدہ امِ کلثوم ؑ بنتِ علی المرتضیٰ عليه السّلام کا ذکر پایا جاتا ہے -
🔆---لہٰذا وہ امِ کلثوم جو حضرت عمر کی منکوحہ اور زید و رقیہ کی ماں تھی اور جس کی نمازِ جنازہ امام حسن ؑ نے پڑھی اگر وہ مولاء کائنات علی المرتضیٰ (عليه السّلام) اور جناب سیدہِ کونین فاطمہ الزھراء السلام اللہ علیہا کی بیٹی ہوتی تو واقعہ کربلا میں موجود نہ ہوتی- (((غور کیجیۓ)))
⏳---اصل بات یہ ہے کہ جس امِ کلثوم سے 18 ہجری میں حضرت عمر کا عقد ہوا اور اسکی عمر 4 یا 5 برس تھی وہ حضرت ابوبکرؓ کی بیٹی تھی- جیسا کہ تاریخ طبری میں درج کہ حضرت ابوبکر کی وافات کے چھ دن بعد یا اسی دن انکی ایک لڑکی پیدا ہوئی جسکا نام امِ کلثوم رکھا گیا اور حضرت ابوبکر کی بیوی اسماءبنتِ عمیس نے انکی وافات کے بعد مولاء کائنات علی المرتضیٰ (عليه السّلام) سے نکاح کر لیاتھا تاریخ طبری نے اس کو اپنے صفحات میں رقم کیا- بس یہی ام کلثوم ہیں جو 18 ہجری میں چار یا پانچ سال کی ہوسکتی ہیں اور اسی امِ کلثوم کی خواستگاری حضرت عمر نے جناب عائشہ رضی ﷲ عنہا سے لینے کے بعد ان سے عقد کیا-
لہٰذا اگر تاریخی ابہامات کی دلل سے نکل کر اگر حقائق کا دامن تھاما جائے تو یہ معمہ اس نہج پہ پہنچتا ہے کہ *حضرت عمر کے عقد میں ام کلثوم بنتِ ابوبکر تھیں اور یہ قطعی جھوٹ اور بہتان ہوگا کہ اس امِ کلثوم بنتِ ابوبکر کو جنابِ امِ کلثوم بنت (علی و فاطمہ) صلوات اللہ علیہم اجمعین تصور کیا جائے-*
AS SALAM O ALIKUM
ReplyDeleteI M SUNNI MUSLIM
KUCH TAMEEZ k huddood mein reh k baat hojaye tu behtr hai
simple question is ka pehle jawab chahye
Q1
ghar jlany walay baat ki authentcity kya?
agr woh baat durst hoti ap k authors k nazdeek tu sanad ke behas baad mein krlein
simple sawal hai AUTHORS ne aise baat mention kion ke ignore krdety insert he na krtay books mein ab tak baat technical bases per ho rhe hai
authors per tu koi baat he nhi hoye
Q2:agr woh HAZRAT ABU BAKR SIDDIQ R.A KE BETI THEIN ok!then Dushman ke beti(MAZALLAH) ko dosray dushman k hwally krnay mei zorr zabrdasti kaise?
last question ajj tak kisi shia ne yazeed l.a shimr l.a ka naam nhi rkha
WAQIYA KARBALA tu ghar jalany walay waqiye(ESTABLISHED FACT CLAIMED BY SHIAS) k baad paish aaya us mein MAULA ALI A.S K GHAR WALO K NAAM YEH MILTE HAIN
Children of Imam Ali (a)
Al-Abbas
Abd Allah
Uthman
Ja'far
Abu Bakr
Muhammad[12]
Children of Imam al-Hasan al-Mujtaba (a)
Al-Qasim
Abu Bakr
'Abd Allah[13]
Umar[14]
behas ab tak yeh horhe the k MAULA ALI A.S ke beti ke age kam the aisay possible nhi kion k HAZRAT UMER R.A (MAZALLAH )dushman thay MAULA ALI A.S K
common sence use krnay ke baat horhe the app ke baat maan letay hain
tu jiss ko MAULA ALI A.S beti ka rishta nhi detay apnay bachoon k naam kaise rkh sktay thay ya IMAM HASSAN A.S.
ab yeh na koi kahay ABU BAKR NAAM k aur bohat se log thay UMER naam k aur b log thay.....
JANABAY HINDA R.A K NABI KAREEM A.S NE ISLAM QABOOL KRLIYA lekin CHEHRA MUBARK B UN KE TARF NHI KIA K CHACHA AMEER HAMZA A.S YAAD aatay thay
tu yhaa b socho MAULA ALI A.S apno bacho k naam dushmano (MAZALLAH )K naam per kasay rkh sktay SYEDA KAINAAT A.S yaad nhi aati thein
baat agr sence ke hai jis sence mein MAULA ALI A.S Ke beti ke shadi HAZRAT UMER R.A SE app ko kabool nhi lekin MAULA ALI A.S AUR IMAM HASSAN A.S ka apnay dushmano k naam per naam rkhna(MAZALLAH) qabool hai?!!
This article is simply a weak effort. There were other Umme Kulthum too. The narrations mention Umme Kulthum but not Bint Ali. Second point is what was the belief of Umme Kulthum AS regarding caliphate or Imamate:
ReplyDeleteremain in the everlasting fire of the hell"[28].
Abd al-Karim b. Ahmad b. Tawus al-Hilli has quoted a hadith from al-Shaykh al-Saduq in which Umm Kultum talks about Imam Ali's (a) advice to his children and his funeral and burial ceremony. In one part of this hadith we read:
… Umm Kulthum said, "At the burial ceremony, the grave was split. I do not know whether my lord (father) was buried in the ground or he (a) ascended to the sky. Suddenly, I heard a voice condoling with us and saying, "May God help you in mourning for the vicegerent and proof of God upon His creation.
Clearly shows her beliefs were Shiite regarding it which means she considered omar la as usurper. So how could she marry him?
Excellent work
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is blog k writer bhai ap se ek mistake hui, bat ye hai k meny abi sari research nai ki bas jo ki hai wo apko dikhany laga. إِنَّ ذَلِكَ فَرْجٌ غُصِبْنَاهُ ka matlub ye hota hai k "that chasity, we have taken by force" ... ager is jumla k end me gol wali ہ na hoti, phir iska matlub hota k hum se li gai hai ye chasity. ya hum pr impose hua hai ..... laken gol wali ہ end me anay se sara mani change ho jata hai, ab iska mani banta hai k hum ny impose kiya hai, imam a.s farma rahay hen k unho ny kuch impose kiya hai. wo ap baki parh k dekh lo k kya bat jo rahi.
ReplyDelete2ndly. ek majhool hadees k elawa kisi b hadees se sabit nai hota k jinki bat ki jaa rahi wo kon log hen, konsa umar hai konsi umme kulsoom hai nai pata chal raha. ye ap ka mafrooza hai k umar ibn khitab hai aur umme kulsoom jo hai wo bint Ali a.s hai.
isko b ap dekho in detail ager dubara kabi me aya yahan aur apka jawab hua to bat hogi ap se, Allah nigehbaan.
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